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Reply to topic Antler Restriction fallout
Antler Restriction fallout
WisconsinHuntr

I'm a 3 point buck on this forum.<br> <b>My next goal is to become a 4 Pointer.</B>
I'm a 3 point buck on this forum.
My next goal is to become a 4 Pointer.


Joined: 08 Dec 2009
Posts: 2
Age: 45
Zodiac: Capricorn

Game Tokens: 50
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Good afternoon. I'm looking to gather some information about the implementation of your antler restriction program to aid in our debate in Wisconsin. I've found some good data on-line, but missing a big piece of the discussion that many hunters here are concerned about.

A major concern of hunters here is the possibility of making a mistake counting points, and having a lot of illegal bucks killed that don't meet the point requirement.

How has that played out in PA? Did you see a large incidence in illegal kills the first year or two, how did people adapt, and what are your penalties for taking an illegal buck? Did they start out lax and forgiving and get stiffer, or was it a no-tolerance policy right from inception?

Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated, even links to sites where I can do some additional reading.
Thanks in advance.
renegade

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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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Location: Central PA

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It really wasn't a big issue here. It happened, but not to any great extent. Here's the news release about it after the first season with the higher restriction.

GAME COMMISSION RELEASES FINAL MISTAKE KILL REPORT

Pennsylvania Game Commission Executive Director Vern Ross today released the final totals for mistake kills reported for the 2002-2003 deer seasons, noting that he was very pleased with the results.

"Based on other states' experiences, we had expected anywhere between 5,000 and 10,000 mistakes during the first season with antler restrictions," Ross said. "However, our Wildlife Conservation Officers handled only 2,096 mistake kills."

Of that number, 2,050 resulted in hunters paying a $25 administrative fee and surrendering the antlers. And, of the remaining 46 cases where our Officers rejected the mistake kill claims and issued a $500 fine, 17 involved hunters shooting bucks in mistake for does, which had nothing to do with antler restrictions, and is something our Officers have to deal with each year.

"So, in reality, there were only 29 cases of our Officers rejecting hunter mistake kill claims involving antler restriction cases," Ross said. "This rejection rate of 1.4 percent is down from last year."

For comparison, Ross noted that, even though the new antler restrictions were not in place for the 2001-2002 deer seasons, Game Commission Wildlife Conservation Officers handled a total of 122 mistake kills involving antlered deer. Of those, three were rejected for a rejection rate of nearly 2.5 percent.

"Also, under law, a hunter charged with illegally killing a deer is subject to a one-year license revocation," Ross said. "However, if there are aggravating or mitigating circumstances, our agency is empowered by law to increase or decrease the revocation by one year. Therefore, we used our discretion to waive license revocation for any hunter who turned in a mistake kill that was ultimately rejected."

The mistake kill reports by region are: Northwest, 293; Southwest, 264; Northcentral, 556; Southcentral, 325; Northeast, 443; and Southeast, 215.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?A=11&Q=157685

Didn't seem to be an issue in the second year. The PGC website has a good bit of info on it.
Stone

Warnings : 2 Warnings : 2 
I'm a 12 point buck on this forum.<br> My next goal is to become a Member of the Pabucks.com  Monster Buck Club.
I'm a 12 point buck on this forum.
My next goal is to become a Member of the Pabucks.com Monster Buck Club.


Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 98

Game Tokens: 3275
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I wonder what percentage of mistake kills are reported or known?

The bigger concern I have is that it allows the smaller, less dominant, bucks to live to breed.
renegade

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It always did, but now there's more older buck remaining to do the breeding and curb those less dominant ones and yearlings from breeding. What's not good about having more older buck in the herd come breeding time? I just don't see the logic there.
WisconsinHuntr

I'm a 3 point buck on this forum.<br> <b>My next goal is to become a 4 Pointer.</B>
I'm a 3 point buck on this forum.
My next goal is to become a 4 Pointer.


Joined: 08 Dec 2009
Posts: 2
Age: 45
Zodiac: Capricorn

Game Tokens: 50
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Sure appreciate the reply Renegade. The information quelled a lot of worries from other forum members, and quieted the ones who were simply making waves. I have no idea whether or not the Wisconsin DNR would even consider enacting an antler restriction anytime soon - right now they are too busy wiping out our deer herd with unlimited bonus doe tags, Earn-a-buck programs, total eradication of the deer herd in CWD zones, and extending the gun season from 9 to 16 days so we can kill MORE deer. The overwhelming cry from hunters last year and this year is "THERE ARE NO DEER LEFT!!" We have people quitting hunting in droves because they are not seeing a single deer during season.

Again, thanks for your help. Can't fight a battle without good intel.
renegade

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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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Location: Central PA

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Well they say the hardest part of wildlife management is people management. Hunters around here have been saying "there's no deer left" for decades, but until only recently has it been fairly close to true. While there are still lots of deer out there it's probably close to half of what it was during the peak year of 2001. The reduction here has definitely worked well with the exception of a few urban areas difficult to access. We're in the stabilization mode now for the most part, letting the food supply catch up to stay ahead of the herd.
Stone

Warnings : 2 Warnings : 2 
I'm a 12 point buck on this forum.<br> My next goal is to become a Member of the Pabucks.com  Monster Buck Club.
I'm a 12 point buck on this forum.
My next goal is to become a Member of the Pabucks.com Monster Buck Club.


Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 98

Game Tokens: 3275
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[quote="WisconsinHuntr"]Sure appreciate the reply Renegade. The information quelled a lot of worries from other forum members, and quieted the ones who were simply making waves. I have no idea whether or not the Wisconsin DNR would even consider enacting an antler restriction anytime soon - right now they are too busy wiping out our deer herd with unlimited bonus doe tags, Earn-a-buck programs, total eradication of the deer herd in CWD zones, and extending the gun season from 9 to 16 days so we can kill MORE deer. The overwhelming cry from hunters last year and this year is "THERE ARE NO DEER LEFT!!" We have people quitting hunting in droves because they are not seeing a single deer during season.

Again, thanks for your help. Can't fight a battle without good intel.[/quote]

WisconsinHuntr, I would caution you that Renegade has an agenda that is often diametrically opposed to most of us Pa. hunters.. The PGC has employed horn restrictions which would naturally reduce the number of bucks killed and therefore produce more competition for breeding; however they also increased the doe season from 3 to 12 days and introduced numerous new season dates. All of these acts would naturally change the ratio of bucks to does but since they did this irresponsibly no-one knows for sure what is doing what. They also reduced the Pa. herd significantly and did so in such an irresponsible way that there are large areas of formerly good hunting area which are now virtually useless to hunt. Renegade will tell you that he and his game commission buddies know better, but I would rather listen to the actual hunters.
renegade

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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 3392
Location: Central PA

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Boy that didn't take long Stone. Your type is so predictable. When you can't refute someone with facts, you try to discredit them with slanderous comments. And anyone who disagrees with him is in the minority and not even a hunter. It's sadly funny how predictable you guys are. Your a PUS member aren't you? BTW, deer don't have horns.

I think Wisconsinhuntr is a smart enough guy to see who's blowing smoke and who can provide him the info he's looking for. I'm sure he can see your comments are all over the board and your only concern is about yourself without any regards to the wildlife, hunters, or the future of deer hunting for future generations.

Now back to the topic. I came across a poll today, it's a weekly one in a popular periodical and this weeks question is on Pa's AR and it's running about 60% in favor. http://www.paoutdoornews.com/ Another poll is running 80% in favor (579 votes) to 14% opposed (98 votes) http://www.pasportsmenportal.com/ There's about 15 polls it randomly cycles through so you may have to keep hitting reload to see a new poll question. There's been several polls over the last few years and it almost always comes out with a majority in favor.


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