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White-tailed deer org. helping change hunters attitudes
renegade

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White-tailed deer organization helping change hunters' attitudes
By David Ching - david.ching@onlineathens.com
Wednesday, March 24, 2010

The stereotype may always exist that hunters are backwards types, but that depiction isn't exactly true.

At least not where the Athens-based Quality Deer Management Association and like-minded outdoorsmen are concerned.

Spurred partially by changing technological times and an emphasis on science, as well as by the conservation movement's emphasis on herd and land management, many hunters' attitudes have evolved in time.

"I think there's been a total attitudinal change to deer hunting altogether," said Randy Bowden, the QDMA's director of marketing and corporate relations. "It was a male, macho, Bubba sport for so long - and it might not be far from a male, macho, Bubba sport now - but as hunters, we've all matured. And the younger set coming up has a totally different attitude toward hunting than I did when I was coming up. They're taught a different way."

For instance, it wasn't until about 10 years ago that deer hunters harvested more does - once considered a no-no among the macho hunting set - than bucks. But today, hunters increasingly realize that maintaining some element of balance between the deer's age and sex ratios is essential to the overall health of the herd.

Still, some old-school hunters will always stick to their guns, so to speak.

"We all know some people that will never kill a doe in their lifetime - it's just philosophically not gonna happen. They can't bring themselves to shoot a female deer," QDMA chief executive officer Brian Murphy said. "The youth of today don't have a problem with it as a whole because they've been brought up under a different mindset. We've seen huge changes in hunter attitudes in Georgia."

That, essentially, is why the QDMA exists. The non-profit organization - which has been headquartered in the Athens area since 1997 and has 50,000 members in all 50 states and several countries - wants to educate hunters and land owners as to the most effective ways to hunt and contend with white-tailed deer.

Georgia has approximately 4,000 members in the organization, including about 2,000 within a 60-mile radius of Athens. A $30 annual adult membership is open to anyone with an interest in white-tailed deer hunting and management.

QDMA data shows that its members reside in 90 percent of the counties in the United States that contain white-tailed deer, and that those members own or manage more than 15 million acres of land.

"That's a significant footprint for conservation," Murphy said. "And on most of those acres, it's safe to say that they're better managed today than they were a decade ago."

Murphy's statement is likely true if those landowners follow the conservationist tactics that have become more popular in the last 15 years - much like those stipulated in the QDMA's principles.

The movement isn't simply about enriching the herd through maintaining a balanced age and sex ratio, it also focuses on land owners providing a quality habitat to support the deer and other wildlife who reside in the area.

"If you wrapped it all up and ask what QDM is really all about, balance is a good summary," said QDMA director of communications Lindsay Thomas. "Balance between the number of deer in the habitat, balance between the numbers of bucks and numbers of does, balance in the numbers of bucks of different ages through the structure."

It requires a different approach than the old days where hunters would visit their camps for a couple weeks per year and then not come back until the next deer season. QDMA principles encourage hunters to engage in a year-round practice of planting plots to support the deer and wildlife population - which benefits both the animals and the hunters.

Like-minded hunters have taken their concerns to state natural resource agencies, 22 of which have instituted guidelines to reduce the harvest of younger bucks since 1994 - all in the name of maintaining balance within the population, which leads to a healthier herd and higher-quality bucks once they're allowed to reach a greater age.

"Most of those have come at the request of hunters, not agencies," Murphy said. "It's hunters saying, 'Hey, we've got a lot of deer. We've gotta do something. We've gotta protect these younger bucks and shoot some does to balance the herd.' They have demanded a quality hunting experience versus a quantity hunting experience."

In Georgia, hunters are allowed to harvest 10 antlerless deer and two antlered bucks each year, although Murphy said very few hunters shoot that many. And that creates an issue, as the deer population numbers around 1 million in Georgia, while the number of hunters has declined - as hunting is the most effective means of population control.

"(The bag limit) has changed, and that trend has broadly occurred across the country as white-tailed populations have gone up and hunter numbers have either stayed stable or declined," Murphy said. "You go, 'All right, how does a wildlife agency control this when you've got a set number of hunters?' You give them more opportunity and let them shoot more of them. But there's a point of diminishing returns."

That's why - in addition to their educational and youth outreach missions - some of the QDMA's 85 national branches support charitable causes like paying processing costs to provide venison to homeless shelters and related entities.

Many regular hunters have more deer meat available than space to put it, so they are happy to donate to those in need. But processing the venison is a pricey proposition, which affects their charitable intentions.

That's where the branches' annual fundraising banquets - like the joint effort between the QDMA national office and Georgia Piedmont Branch, which will be held April 8 at the Georgia Center on the UGA campus - come into play. The branches can use the funds generated to provide food for those in need and help further their mission of education and advocacy for deer hunting causes.

"If I'm a hunter, I want to know that I'm getting the best cutting-edge information on deer hunting and management, and we can clearly say we have that," Murphy said. "We're biased, but I believe you can check your references and confirm that. I think we have a long history of doing just that, so we can make them a better deer hunter or manager, period.

" ... If there's someone else from society, if they're looking for some support or guidance on any other deer-related issue, we're for you."

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/032410/spo_595397443.shtml
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Watch the swinging watch children, your getting sleepy, your getting more sleepy, your even more sleepy. Now listen to me children, there are plenty of deer in Pennsylvania, you can shoot all the doe, your fathers don't know what they're talking about because they are foolish old men that are telling you lies about how good it was in the old days. Now when I snap my fingers you will wake up thinking that Pennsylvania's QDM is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Roflmao] I couldn't help myself, when I hear stories like this I think of brainwashing, sorry Renegade.
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[quote="oldzimm"]Watch the swinging watch children, your getting sleepy, your getting more sleepy, your even more sleepy. Now listen to me children, there are plenty of deer in Pennsylvania, you can shoot all the doe, your fathers don't know what they're talking about because they are foolish old men that are telling you lies about how good it was in the old days. Now when I snap my fingers you will wake up thinking that Pennsylvania's QDM is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Roflmao] I couldn't help myself, when I hear stories like this I think of brainwashing, sorry Renegade.[/quote]

I think he actually believes this stuff! [Roflmao]
oldzimm

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[quote="Stone"][quote="oldzimm"]Watch the swinging watch children, your getting sleepy, your getting more sleepy, your even more sleepy. Now listen to me children, there are plenty of deer in Pennsylvania, you can shoot all the doe, your fathers don't know what they're talking about because they are foolish old men that are telling you lies about how good it was in the old days. Now when I snap my fingers you will wake up thinking that Pennsylvania's QDM is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Roflmao] I couldn't help myself, when I hear stories like this I think of brainwashing, sorry Renegade.[/quote]

I think he actually believes this stuff! [Roflmao][/quote]

Ofcourse I believe this stuff and history has proven me right. If you want to change the future all you have to do is brainwash the youth. Let's see........Hitller did it, Obama did it when he got elected (young voters fell for him hook, line and sinker), the military has always been good at it (I know) and yes the PGC is doing it. Prove me wrong, how about having the PGC stop telling youth about their QDM plans and we will see how far they get in convincing the public that their QDM is best for Pa. History has proven me right and any proof you have that I might be wrong is nothing more than a fairytale. The funniest part of all this is YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT but you won't admit to it. [bustagut]

Will (oldzimm) Zimmerman
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[quote="oldzimm"][quote="Stone"][quote="oldzimm"]Watch the swinging watch children, your getting sleepy, your getting more sleepy, your even more sleepy. Now listen to me children, there are plenty of deer in Pennsylvania, you can shoot all the doe, your fathers don't know what they're talking about because they are foolish old men that are telling you lies about how good it was in the old days. Now when I snap my fingers you will wake up thinking that Pennsylvania's QDM is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Roflmao] I couldn't help myself, when I hear stories like this I think of brainwashing, sorry Renegade.[/quote]

I think he actually believes this stuff! [Roflmao][/quote]

Ofcourse I believe this stuff and history has proven me right. If you want to change the future all you have to do is brainwash the youth. Let's see........Hitller did it, Obama did it when he got elected (young voters fell for him hook, line and sinker), the military has always been good at it (I know) and yes the PGC is doing it. Prove me wrong, how about having the PGC stop telling youth about their QDM plans and we will see how far they get in convincing the public that their QDM is best for Pa. History has proven me right and any proof you have that I might be wrong is nothing more than a fairytale. The funniest part of all this is YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT but you won't admit to it. [bustagut]

Will (oldzimm) Zimmerman[/quote]

No actually those that are willing and capable of looking at ALL of the facts know just how totally wrong you are. There is a MAJOR difference between being brainwashed and becoming well informed and knowledgeable about a subject.

It is those that refuse to look at all of the factors that have and continue to threaten the future of both wildlife management and hunting in this state.

Dick Bodenhorn
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Right on Dick. [thumbup]
oldzimm

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It is good to hear from you Dick, I haven't been on Pabucks in awhile and I missed our meaningful postings.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but until I see an quality deer herd again, where the deer numbers should be, I will continue to support the cause and tell the truth to young hunter and how hunting use to be. But than you and some others will think your right, I and other fellow hunters will think we are right and nothing will ever change.

Dick last year you had a tour pertaining to deer, are you doing it again this year?

Will (oldzimm) Zimmerman
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I love it when the house of cards is falling down all around you and those that built it tell you how stable it is! Pay no attention to reality........just trust us......we know what we're doing!
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"until I see an quality deer herd again, where the deer numbers should be"

Just what is that number and how did you arrive at that number? (no need for supporting evidence at this time)

p.s. I believe Dick holds the tours twice a year, one spring, one fall. There's a video of one on the home page of pabucks.
oldzimm

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[quote="Stone"]I love it when the house of cards is falling down all around you and those that built it tell you how stable it is! Pay no attention to reality........just trust us......we know what we're doing![/quote]

The poor state the deer herd is in and you want Pa hunters to trust who?............. oh don't tell me, I know.........rrrrrright.
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[quote="oldzimm"][quote="Stone"]I love it when the house of cards is falling down all around you and those that built it tell you how stable it is! Pay no attention to reality........just trust us......we know what we're doing![/quote]

The poor state the deer herd is in and you want Pa hunters to trust who?............. oh don't tell me, I know.........rrrrrright.[/quote]

I'm not sure what you're asking, or answering for that matter. My point? The PGC says that the deer herd is down due to loss of low level food growth, and they blame hunters for over hunting and wrong hunting. Yet it was this same PGC who introduced bonus antlerless tags at the same time the habitat, which they are paid to understand, was changing. It was the same PGC who changed from a 3 day doe season to a two week doe season.

Now the house of cards has fallen and they blame everyone but themselves.
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[quote="renegade"]"until I see an quality deer herd again, where the deer numbers should be"

Just what is that number and how did you arrive at that number? (no need for supporting evidence at this time)

p.s. I believe Dick holds the tours twice a year, one spring, one fall. There's a video of one on the home page of pabucks.[/quote]

Hi renegade, it is good to here from you. I started back up on Pabucks a couple days ago and didn't take notice to any new post from you. I thought you might of fallen into a hole while you were out hunting. [bustagut] There must be a big hole out there somewhere that swallowed up most of our deer, [bustagut] it couldn't possibly be because of QDM, nooooo.

Anyhow to answer your question, in the topic "Deer are making a comeback" I posted a picture of our meat pole. In that picture which was taken in 1998 (soon after that the "Great Doe Kill" started) there was ten bucks hanging on the meat pole. advance through the next ten years and there were 1 to 3 buck hanging on that meat pole. Then to top it all off, in 2009 there was no buck hanging on that meat pole, matter of fact in a six mile stretch of RT 192 (western end of Union County) there was not a deer hanging (not even a doe) on any meat pole. These are the only numbers I need to know, the proof is in the numbers.

Now granted you can have a season or two where the kill is down and it has happen, but a decade, come on now, who is kidding who. That is why when asked "What do you think of the Penn. Game Commission's QDM?" I can honestly say "do you have a bucket I can throw-up in".

In just one decade the PGC has turned good quality deer hunting in Union County into the joke of the start of the new century. But maybe the deer numbers might be up this year, in a few weeks we will see and maybe I will be singing a different tune. Hey according to ARfan there is deer all over the place in Union County, ofcourse he is the only Union Countian that I heard say that. I talked to some lucky archery hunters that got their buck and they are telling me they aren't seeing many deer, so I guess that I must see for myself.

Well anyhow it is good to hear from you Renegade, we will talk some more and doggone we didn't have that beer yet at the Union County Sportsmens club. [bustagut]
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Hi Zimm. Nope, didn't fall into a hole. Maybe more like a rut. But I didn't see any deer in it either. You know how the internet goes, sometimes it's addicting, sometimes it gets old, sometimes your just to busy with other things. It's been a busy year and as you know, the older you get the faster time flies.

I think you misunderstood my question. There's no doubt, and I don't believe anyone is denying that the deer herd is down from what it was. But you said "a quality deer herd, where the numbers should be". My question is what is that number and how did you arrive at that figure?

Yes we will have that beer sooner or later when I get over that way.
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What is a quality deer herd, where the numbers should be?........ Didn't we go over this one about a year ago? As I said the numbers I look at are the numbers on the meat pole. Now if the numbers are not there it could be because of two basic reasons.
1. The deer aren't there.
2. The guys are seeing buck and are not connecting.
The first reason can be solved by the PGC and the second reason can be solved by some trips to the rifle range (that wasn't the case in 2009).

Now lets talk about quality deer, quality deer are healthy deer unless you think trophy racks should be included too (which I don't). I don't buy into the idea that back in the glory days our deer were unhealthy, I never seen an unhealthy deer that was on property that was open to hunting. Well I should say I never seen a unhealthy deer that didn't have a bullet/arrow hole in it [bustagut], then they looked sickly dead.

Will (oldzimm) Zimmerman
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Renegade Lets not have that beer with Oldzimmy, sounds like he,s had to much allready. [Confused]


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White-tailed deer org. helping change hunters attitudes
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