[John Hodgdon]

We have a great group of hunters here, and many of you have the same
concerns as I do.

Where are the deer?
Where are the Hunters?

I really believe that we as avid hunters, must take matters into our
own hands.

The hunters are few and far in-between and the deer
are nowhere to be found.


Some of you must have some ideas on what we can do.
Lets not just ride this out, lets do something about it!!


I harvested an 8 point buck this year in archery. If I wasn't pretty
skilled at finding deer in my area and very lucky I would of fell
short this season.

Now for a young and upcoming hunter, they have little chance
at harvesting a deer with a bow or a gun.

Whats to keep them interested if the don't see any deer.

I could go on and on but I want to hear what you think.
Am I wrong?
or
Do you feel the same way I do?

[Treebound]

In the Poconos of northeastern Pa where I do all of my hunting the deer herd on public land is vastly reduced. In the development communities where no hunting is allowed is where most of the deer are reported to be. I've heard stories of 14 and 20 deer in backyards here where they are being fed. Did the public land deer that made it through the previous hunting seasons migrate to these places for their own safety? Are they that smart? Or did these (protected and well fed) deer simply multiply while the public land deer mostly got shot off? I supposed a percentage of each applies here. By the way, in all of the archery season this year I've seen one doe. In the first week of the rifle season I saw one doe. On my way home from hunting in the fading light while passing through posted property and developments I see plenty of deer that seem clueless that there is an open season on their cousins. At least I get to see some deer.

As for hunters I'd say their numbers are relatively the same as usual. The cars parked along the roadways for the first two days and Saturday of the rifle season this year seems to be unchanged. The number of shots heard is paltry compared to 10, 20, or 30 years ago. Recently I hear 40 shots ALL day long. Years ago I'd count 300 shots till lunch time. Yes, you can joke and say we are all better shots now adays but reality tells it all. Ten years now of multiple tags being filled out by tens of thousands of hunters has taken it's toll. There are a few deer to be found on public lands and I have the ability to find them but should I wipe out the remnants, the trace remains of the breeding stock? Are we in the mop up mode?

Like the famous accordian effect over a span of lets say 20 years we've seen both extremes. The only thing left is for the situation to average out. Can that happen? Will the well fed private land deer ever come back on their own to repopulate the public lands? I think not. The deer feeder people have created a monster in trying to save the deer from all us nasty hunters. How long will it take them to realize their good intentions have backfired? It didn't take us hunters long to realize what we have done, now did it? Did I make any sense? The windbag is done for now.

[NonTypical07]

Personally Im not sure on what to do. We need to unite, not just the members here, but hunters statewide. We need to come up with a plan and put that plan into action. Like I read in an earlier post, we can sit around all day and talk about this, but lets do something about it. But in the meantime we need to adapt and make it work for now.

About people not seeing deer- I keep hearing "Ive killed deer out of my stand every year except this year, theres no deer" My response to this is that the deer might not be there, they might be on the other side of the hill. My point is that people got spoiled in the days where you just had to walk in the woods and you could see deer all day, now that people have to actually hunt, they have no idea what to do. Of the deer i have killed, not one of them has been out of the same tree.

[renegade]

Boy Dave, you said a mouthful. And I tend to agree with all you said. Especially the point that both you and Non-typ made; that was then, this is now, we must adapt! Follow the food. And you are sooo right that this is a very complex issue. Which is why just complaining about the pgc and about not getting “your” deer, does nothing but make you look like a fool. (not you personally)

In the original post John ask what can we do. A very loaded question but a good one as well. We could press the following issues:

Education- I think they were on the right track with the push for education but it just slacked off. Alt went around for 3 years but they didn’t advertise much the first year. The fouth year (last year) they were planning on having Wallingford, Grund, & Rosenberry do the touring but that didn’t happen. Wallingford did do some shows and such. Small seminars and workshops happen in various places on deer management and forestry issues, but they’re few and far between and not advertised heavily. They’re very interesting too I might add. People know that they are reducing the herd, but they don’t necessarily understand why.

Citizens task Groups – This was proposed by the Deer Management Working Group to the PGC in Jan. 2000, as a recommendation. These would be to help set acceptable deer densities in area’s, since the locals are the ones to receive damage by too high densities. It would also get input from local hunters of actual in the field reports.

Smaller management units- This is also something they proposed. I agree with Dave that these units are too big to manage with any kind of consistency. My unit (4D) in composed of parts of 11 different counties.

Voluntary check stations– This would help with data collection and better reporting rates.

Access- Better access to remote area’s via vehicle’s.

But what could we do as hunters without the input of bureaucrats? I think supplemental feeding and tree planting could go along way to help the forests recover. Just think if every hunter hauled one 4 lb. salt block into the woods in late winter or early spring, this would help tremendously with mineral requirements for both buck and doe.
If a program like the old Johnny Appleseed program could get established and would plant various species of trees like oaks and other fruiting trees. Wildflowers may be difficult to establish but food plots should take up some of the pressure. I’ve seen many places in the woods that have great sunlight such as old logging landings or even log roads, that would be great for planting. DCNR would have to give approval for some of this. They would also have to give access to allow atv’s as working tools for planting.
Just thinking out loud.

[renegade]

I think both are solutions. Shorten the doe season to just the second week. Or lower the allocations. We'll see how steadfast the commissioners are in April. I'm sure they'll be deluged with letters and e-mails from hunters. I think it's time to start lowering them in some area's to stabalize the herd.

One thing I'd like to add to my above post as to what we can do. Shoot coyotes! They've become a silent problem for our deer.

[Archeryman]

I agree on the coyotes. What I think is funny there is the Game Commission just not want to admit that they had a hand in reintroducing the coyotes to Pa. to help control the deer population. They did not just all migrate from other areas to here.

[Archeryman]

I agree that some areas need to change but there are still areas that can handle running under the current rules. The area I hunted for the first two days of the rifle season is very thick with private and public ground bordering one another. Although it seemed the deer population was down for those two days, on the first Saturday they had some gangs making drives in the area and my buddy stated to me that there was a lot more deer seen on that day then the first week totally. So the deer were there but with few hunters moving around on the first 2 days the deer were not seen. To me then they awere bedded in ares that gave them the most concealment possible and did not leave those ares till they were pushed to.

[NonTypical07]

Seig- Im no expert. I know very little compared to other members of this site, but I know enough to help out where I can. I wanted to be a ProStaff writer to help out in any way I could.
Treat others how you want to be treated, that is something we are taught. You obiously have to work on that. You came into this site blowing smoke and never stopped, what do you expect?
For your info, my dad doesnt know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of, he doesnt hunt.

[SGTGS]

You tell him, loved the part where you say your dad doesn't know which end of the gun the bullet comes out