[renegade]

Sounds like a cop out to me. You made a claim now back it up. The burden of proof is on your shoulders. I've been looking for proof of this conspiracy for years.

Dave has no problem finding deer in the ANF, nor do people who hunt the Kinzua co-op. Every place can't be a hot spot all the time.

"otherwise you sound like a lobbyist for the game commission."
There's that same 'ol line, but usually it's a "family member or employee". Nope, I'm just one of those many hunters who don't look at the PGC as the enemy and know that they have the sport of hunting and the wildlifes best interests in mind. It's about more than just shooting a deer.

[renegade]

[quote="Stone"] Oh it's a cop out all right... [/quote]
Well thank you for at least admitting it. If I made the claim the moon was green I wouldn't expect you to have to prove it's not, when everyone knows it's not. I made the allegation, I should be able to back it up.
I'm not about to go back thru the years and repeat all the discussions I've ever read or participated in. It's been discussed ad nausea. I did a quick search for threads about it on this site only and came up with two in the title. Search [/quote]Haibitatwarrior's posts , I'm sure he's dispelled it once or twice on here.
http://www.pabucks.com/deer-hunting-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1473
http://www.pabucks.com/deer-hunting-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1555

"If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I'm calling it a duck"
I have a toy for my grandson at home that does exactly that. But I looked into it further and it turns out it's a plastic toy and has no real feathers! That's just a saying man, a saying.

"The bottom line, hunting in a good many locations in Pa. has been ruined, no matter how many words you use to spin it otherwise it's still fact."
I won't disagree with that but I also wouldn't use the adjective "ruined". You have to understand the reasons why the reduction was needed and you also need a concern for the future of hunting and the wildlife to be hunted.

"If they did they would get out of their trucks once in a while, get in the woods, and experience the issue at hand directly."
There's another baseless comment that shows you have no idea of what or how they do things. I guarantee they spend more time in the woods than you do. If you were a resident I'd tell you to contact one of them for a ride along, but I believe you said your a non-resident of PA. Or am I thinking of someone else?

Ted - I'm surprised you haven't heard that before, we've been preaching that to the whiners for years now. They are their own worst enemy. You said "They hear what they say " and that where the problem is and the whole point of my comment. You as a parent or mentor set the stage for their impression and experience. It's up to you to NOT make it a bad time as you said.

"When my kids get to "be that age", and I take them to my camp, it will be a positive experience, as I want them to beg me to go back. Not for the "killing" but just to be there, which is the reason I like going. Enjoy the outdoors, nature etc."
Then that's totally up to you. If you sit around and badmouth everything and praise the way you wish it was, you set them up for disappointment. Help them enjoy the outdoors and nature as you said. You are their guide and your payment is based on your actions.

[renegade]

Good to hear. Let us know when you find it. I know I'm anxiously awaiting it, as I'm sure many others are too. But I hope it's not just more of your unsubstantiated opinion based on your days of poor hunting.

Yeah I'm the politician but yet your the one who made a claim, waffled when called out on it, and spun it in an attempt to put the burden of proof on me. Seriously, do you guys read out of the same playbook. If I had a nickel for every time I seen that happen on these various sites I'd be retired! Denial at it's finest. You guys don't want answers.... it's too easy to make baseless snipes. Reminds me of grade school. Come'on man, step up to the plate. If you want answers start researching them.

You obviously have no clue as to what the job of PA's Game Commission is, so let me help. Read this page, if you are so inclined to further this discussion on an informative level, and show us where it's the job of the PGC to provide you a deer. If you can't find any that's your own fault. A couple hundred thousand manage to do it why can't you. I haven't found one yet this year but I'm not crying a river. I guess I was never spoiled by the overabundance of deer we had a decade ago.
Read on.... if you dare!
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=481&q=151287&pgcNav=|

[renegade]

Yeah funny.... what a coincidence huh. It's too bad it's gotten to the point where you have to make up stuff to support your baseless claim. You've made zero effort to give anything to back up your claim. I thought you would be someone worth having a civil, objective debate but you've shown that to be not so, and would rather live in the world of conspiracy and myth. And I'm not about to follow your lead to the gutter. So either back up your claim or move on. At this point it's merely your opinion with no roots in fact. End of subject.

[renegade]

Exposed?? I’m an open book, what’s to expose. Unlike you I’m out for the unbiased truth and all the cards are on the table. I have no agenda other than to get to the truth based on fact and reality while leaving out opinion and myth.

I didn’t call you a liar but if the shoe fits. I don’t think you can have a civil debate because you base too much on emotion which throws bias into the mix. Now I see you’ve admitted your claim was an opinion, and that’s fine, but don’t try and play it off as a fact. I’ve shown you where your opinion was flawed using logic and ask you to explain your accusation. You couldn’t and could only come up with more accusations like ” mine is substantiated by hundreds of hours of hunting and hundreds of thousands of other hunters.” So you expect use to believe that you personally know (since it’s Your opinion) hundreds of thousands of hunters and during their “hundreds of hours” of hunting they’ve discovered proof that the insurance companies are controlling wildlife management in PA. I’d be curious to know where they’re hunting at, downtown Pittsburg?? Anyone can make a claim but on this site we hold users to a higher standard because we don’t want to be one of those typical mud slinging sites that are a dime a dozen. Facts, info., and civil discussions are the name of the game here.
I could make the claim that your controlling the obama administrations policies. Is it then your burden to prove me wrong. No, I made the claim, I should be able to back it up.
This insurance company myth has been around for decades and has never been substantiated in any way. It’s laughable that there’s still people who fall for it.

Now, as I said end of subject. We’re not making any headway here and I won’t allow you to draw it into the gutter. Is their something else you want to discuss that isn’t based on conspiracy?

[haibitatwarrior]

I'm not gonna call you a liar about your friend saying that but I will say that he's either busting your chops or full of crap.I own an insurance agency and I can tell you for a fact that the insurance industry doesn't give a rat's fat arse about the number of deer in this state.Show me your proof and then I'll prove you wrong.