[buckman]

The way I see it, we're paying the piper for past mistakes....If shooting a higher % of older age class bucks and taking better control of the herd is paying the piper?? Ten, fifteen, twenty years from now they'll be talking about how good Pa hunting is while other States see a decline. I already know some Virginia hunters who hunt the western mountain region that do the same whining about not seeing deer...heck, we had one guy hunt three days down there on Public Land and he saw one tail....not even one whole deer, so, how much better is it really??? They don't need AR because they have about 600,000 fewer hunters than we do, the buck population isn't and never was overhunted like it was in Pa. (as a State). You don't like Pa because it's tougher than it used to be....by your own admission. The only State you hunt that provides a more challenging hunt is Maine and you know as well as I do that this State is also underhunted by our standards in Pa. Despite the low dpsm in Maine, because of less hunting pressure, bucks live to maturity. Because of high hunting pressure here in Pa, bucks had a difficult time making it past 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 yrs. old...hence AR. Notice I said difficult time and not impossible, of course we had mature bucks then and we still do. The only difference is the bucks now have a difficult time getting past 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 yrs. old before being killed and because of the pressure exerted on these bucks, I absolutely believe that our bucks which reach 4 1/2 or older and live in heavily hunted areas are some of the toughest cridders in the world to kill!! Do we kill them? Yes we do! But we don't kill all of them or even a high number of them....yet.
Ghost, How did West Virginia treat you this year?? How many hours in the stand to kill your Va bucks or any other deer you killed?? How many hours or days hunting Maine?? Now, how many hours or days did you spend watching your favorite "funnel" in Pa?? and one other thing...how many of these States permit hunting with a firearm during the rutting period??? I know the answer to this and don't you think that maybe this also plays a roll in the bucks that are killed?? I know for sure it's why I scored in Virginia....the only way the deer were moving on those miserably warm days was because of rutting behavior early in the am. What would happen in Pa if hunters could tote rifles during the pre-rut/rut phase?? A LOT more mature bucks gettin' the smack down!!

[Ghost]

How can I garuntee mature bucks year after year in other states? I say it year after year..I keep filling my walls..and you guys keep hunting after animals that dont exist.

I dont have 20 years to wait around and see if the hunting will get better....Remeber Buckman..Hunting seizes to exist the way you know it when you start getting close to 50 years of age..So..if you are in your late 30's..you have about 10 to 12 good more years of hunting left..then your done. Then you will have to resort to middleage hunting..not stressing your heart..hunting close to roads..paying for hunts...Its a fact of life....which i probably wont be able to deal with.

So..Time is precious..You bettter start thinking that way. I surely do.


btw...i didnt hunt West Virginia this year....I was in Maine

[Ghost]

Look at all the bucks i videoed in Virginia..How many PA hunters would pass on these bucks? Nobody. There's no antler restrictions..but yet i can see 5 to 10 mature bucks a season. Its like night and day.

This is just one buck i passed on of many..some i wasnt able to video...I cant do this in PA...Its impossible.

[buckman]

Not impossible but, if your not hunting here enough, you certainly won't be able to do it. That was my point, because believe it or not, I do know a couple guys who won't raise the rifle unless it's in the 150" class that hunt here in Pa and they see some very nice 120-130" bucks every year. Yes, they hunt private land but so do you in Virginia. Since your apparently worried about getting old....I have one quest for you to complete before that happens...How about "wasting" some time in Pa next deer season and see if you can kill a mature buck on your favorite SGL's that you say once produced big bucks. Come on!! You can do it and you know as well as I do there's gotta' be a couple dandy bucks that are products of their great-great grandparents in there.
You never answered the questions on time afield as per kills and rut behavior with rifle in hand...what gives??

[Ghost]

Well..Your right..I didnt spend the time in PA but you did..and so did alot of my friends..You seem like a heck of a hunter and is willing to put alot of sweat into it...I do too..but there's a limit...I have to know that I'm not wasting my time..Ill put the effort into the hunt as long as i know there's a chance.

How many hunters saw the big buck sign on SGL like i did? When i hike out there 2 miles or so..there was only one area that had sign of a large buck....When there's so little sign then that area that the sign is in will get hammered by all the hunters..scented up..disturbed.. Even tho im walking so far back in..everybody else is too because they doing the same thing..trying to get way back in..Its disasterous. So..the little sign that is there gets overhunted.

Also..Buckman..You gotta remeber ..I'm marking timber throughtout the year..and I'm not seeing much sign on the properties i get on...Not like i used too..So..Thats another indicator i use....And I also use my friends that still hunt PA..I use them as indicators..They are doing horrible compared to years past...why go thru the misery they are going through?

[buckman]

The challenge!!! I'm a little shocked that your area was hammered....2 miles in is one heck of a walk!! As for finding buck sign...one thing I have noticed over the past few years is that it is concentrated. I don't know exactly why that is but, I find buck sign in smaller areas and mostly in thicker cover unless I'm hunting the farm where I find most of it closer to field edges. Although we are finding comparitively (to yrs. ago) less buck sign on the SGL's we hunt, we are seeing more bucks. Doesn't sound right but, between four of us we saw (9) antlered bucks and (11) antlerless deer the first day. That was by the far the most buck we've seen in one day on that SGL's!! Should I have killed a buck?? Well, I could have but, I don't shoot "legal" bucks, I look for mature ones just like you. Time afield and when the timing is right are the key in my opinion and based on your "time" spent hunting, I just thought you would be up to the challenge of giving comparible time in Pa. With your skills, I think you could do the same in Pa as you do elsewhere.....the bucks are here and you know "when" to hunt them.

[renegade]

koko - Not only juniors, but disabled, active military and coast guard too. And have you seen the urban deer management plan? It's designed to address those areas you spoke of. I'm not sure what you mean by the huge blocks of forest areas. Hunters are free to hunt them, and I believe something like 75% of the forests are within a 1/2 mile of an open road. And DCNR opens more roads just for deer season.
But I know what your saying. Just like deer aren't distributed evenly, neither are hunters. But that's up to us to change.

[Uncle Dave]

If some of you insist on comparing PA to all these other states, then perhaps PA should follow suit with some of these states by outlawing rifles for deer.