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RSB

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The only real educators are the ones that don’t try to teach you what to think and instead just teach you how to think.

Perhaps that is why it seems that there are so few people in today’s society that know how to think so many things through to a logical conclusion. It seems that very few people are able to perceive cause and affect beyond the amount required for their own survival.

Dick Bodenhorn
Hoyt

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You can't teach 'common sense' or a 'work ethic', its something that your parents have to beat into you.
Just think, Ward Churchill is still employed and funded by your tax dollars.
What worries me is that the youth vote is openly ready to embrace a socialist form of government this year.
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AHHHHH, to be young again. To have such great ideals for a perfect world, and to see that when you get to the "real" world, perfection is impossible.

Havn't people learned from the mistakes with the socialist experiments that have happened in the past? Can't these folks see that there is a repressor, and even more so under a socialist gov. Those leaders rule with an iron fist, moreso over their own people who are to be "equals". At least under a Republic such as ours, anyone, and I mean anyone has the chance to succeed.
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YH-Not to pile on buddy but as for this statement--" I magine if Aldo Leopold was president... we need someone to bring terms like conservation, land ethic, stewardship to be synonymous with hunting. Those are the values that I was taught and those are the values I support"

As an admirer of Aldo Leopold and student of his writings I am sure that if he was running for President and he had the choices of all the candidates from the primaries to now, he would pick Sarah Palin to be his running mate.
jr520

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THEO, The plan Bush and his puppets, or vice versa, have come up with to bail out these banks reaks of socialism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just think it will only cost you about $5000.00. I thought republicans were CONSERVATIVES, YET IN EIGHT YEARS OUR COUNTRY IS BANKRUPT. No republican or democrat will get us out of this mess. Both McCain and Osama aes fools, good luck to whomever gets the position. Hopefully someday we will all get our heads out of our A$$es and wake up.
TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!!!!!!! We threw the British out for taxing tea for cripes sake!
Viva la revoloution [eyeing]
Theotis44

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Jr. I do not disagree with you one iota. Tragically it is necessary to bail em or face depression era consequences.

The difference between the depression and a no bail-out would be this: In the depression, people lost lent money, and couldn't pay it back. They borrowed to play the market, and lost terribly, hence sending banks to the doldrums. The overwhelming majority of the monies spent in the market was on loan. I believe the figur was over 75%.

Today, that is not the case. The VAST majority of the monies in the market is liquid. I.E. retirements, savings, people trying to make money with their own money. So the big firms that we emtrust to manage OUR money, more or less borrow it from us, and try to make us money of which they get a cut.

Now, if the government stays out of it, a 100000 bankroll in the market could possibly be worth about 65000.
With the bail out, if you would "spend" your own money, it would cost you roughly 5-6000 to keep your assets up around 85000. If you paid it out of your pocket, per se. Instead the Gov. is bankrolling it through tax money, becoming the "agent" to guarantee the money.

This, does suck, but one evil is better than the other.

We have to deal with this problem. It is NOT a Democrat or Republican problem.

If you wish to place blame, which SHOULD be placed somewhere, I ask you this..

Why havn't there been any, ANY calls for hearings and investigations into this issue. WE THE PEOPLE are asking why, but the pols aren't.

Barack has two high ranking figures from Fannie Ame and Freddie MAc as HIS advisors. The Dems got LOTS, and LOTS of monies from these to entities, which got this ball rolling in the first place.

When ENRON went caput, which was small potatoes compared to this, Republicans had their fingers in it and heads rolled, but now the Dems are deeply involved, and THEY control the House and Senate. There ain't gonna be any hearings and I wonder WHY? You should too.
Ghost

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Didnt figure Jr520 as an Obama man....Turnin liberal on us ..ehhh Jr




[greentoung]
Theotis44

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Well, I see the FBI is getting involved. Hope they dig deep while they can.

If you give two craps about this, write to your reps. and tell them to change the mark to market rules. It will free up cash to these banks so that a bailout will not be necessary. For more info go to www.daveramsey.com and there is a podcast about it. This will free up to 60% of the monies needed to help these companies out. And the bail wil be about 50 billion versus up to 2 trillion. Threaten to boot em if they don't listen.
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Ghost wrote:
Didnt figure Jr520 as an Obama man....Turnin liberal on us ..ehhh Jr



[greentoung]


I don't know if Jr520 is a liberal, but Bush certainly is not a conservative. If a dem was heading this bailout, all the republicans would be screaming foul - bigtime. The only true conservative is Ron Paul.
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Ron Paul don't like the bailout very much. [sad3]

Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Dear Friends,

Whenever a Great Bipartisan Consensus is announced, and a compliant media assures everyone that the wondrous actions of our wise leaders are being taken for our own good, you can know with absolute certainty that disaster is about to strike.

The events of the past week are no exception.

The bailout package that is about to be rammed down Congress' throat is not just economically foolish. It is downright sinister. It makes a mockery of our Constitution, which our leaders should never again bother pretending is still in effect. It promises the American people a never-ending nightmare of ever-greater debt liabilities they will have to shoulder. Two weeks ago, financial analyst Jim Rogers said the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made America more communist than China! "This is welfare for the rich," he said. "This is socialism for the rich. It's bailing out the financiers, the banks, the Wall Streeters."

That describes the current bailout package to a T. And we're being told it's unavoidable.

The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish that only politicians and the media could pretend to believe it. But that has become the conventional wisdom, with the desired result that those responsible for the credit bubble and its predictable consequences - predictable, that is, to those who understand sound, Austrian economics - are being let off the hook. The Federal Reserve System is actually positioning itself as the savior, rather than the culprit, in this mess!

• The Treasury Secretary is authorized to purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-related assets at any one time. That means $700 billion is only the very beginning of what will hit us.

• Financial institutions are "designated as financial agents of the Government." This is the New Deal to end all New Deals.

• Then there's this: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." Translation: the Secretary can buy up whatever junk debt he wants to, burden the American people with it, and be subject to no one in the process.

There goes your country.

Even some so-called free-market economists are calling all this "sadly necessary." Sad, yes. Necessary? Don't make me laugh.

Our one-party system is complicit in yet another crime against the American people. The two major party candidates for president themselves initially indicated their strong support for bailouts of this kind - another example of the big choice we're supposedly presented with this November: yes or yes. Now, with a backlash brewing, they're not quite sure what their views are. A sad display, really.

Although the present bailout package is almost certainly not the end of the political atrocities we'll witness in connection with the crisis, time is short. Congress may vote as soon as tomorrow. With a Rasmussen poll finding support for the bailout at an anemic seven percent, some members of Congress are afraid to vote for it. Call them! Let them hear from you! Tell them you will never vote for anyone who supports this atrocity.

The issue boils down to this: do we care about freedom? Do we care about responsibility and accountability? Do we care that our government and media have been bought and paid for? Do we care that average Americans are about to be looted in order to subsidize the fattest of cats on Wall Street and in government? Do we care?

When the chips are down, will we stand up and fight, even if it means standing up against every stripe of fashionable opinion in politics and the media?

Times like these have a way of telling us what kind of a people we are, and what kind of country we shall be.

In liberty,

Ron Paul
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I'm not huge into politics. Unfortunitly I don't understand everything. Though old timer, thank you very much for that post. It did indeed help me understand the current situation. I was already hesitant about this great decision. Because I know it is going to affect me at my age later. I agree this is to bold a move for the American people. I can't say I've ever been much for buying large dollar items with credit. I guess I'm already ahead of the game.
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Great post Old Timer! I can't believe the republicans (and dems) in the senate and the whitehouse can't see that what they are proposing is fundamentally wrong - and socialist. But that is the state of the union - Ronald Reagan is doing the rollover as we live>
Hoyt

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Socialism is definetly wrong, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd have confirmed that already.
Can you explain to me the supporters of Ron Paul who hold the controversial views of 9-11?
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Hoyt wrote:
Socialism is definetly wrong, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd have confirmed that already.
Can you explain to me the supporters of Ron Paul who hold the controversial views of 9-11?


Those supporters are simply the fringe element looking for some one to support other than the two major parties. Ron Paul, in no way, agrees with this fringe element and their conspiracy theories regarding 9-11. But he would not alienate those people, and has said publicly that he disagrees with their view on that point.
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Yea.... but she's hot. [eyeing]


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