[Ghost]

A Game Agency that manages bucks for maturity with an antlered point system is not the way to go..The game agency needs to be educated that points and age have very little in common.

The inferior lesser gened bucks are protected under AR and the greater gened better quality antlered bucks are targeted for extermination.


1.5 year old healthy 8 point bucks are removed and inferior lessor 1.5 year old bucks are saved.

Will the lesser inferior bucks ever catch up..sure..But in their case they need time and PA deer dont have time on their side.

I saw many 8 point bucks in Ohio this year hunting..some 100"..some 120"'s..It doesnt mean I should shoot them...Just 1 hour before I shot my 142 inch buck i saw a 110" 8 point..He wasnt mature..I didnt shoot. I let him go..I probably let 10 or 12 bucks walk this year. In PA..that 8 point buck would have been exterminated on sight..and the one i killed would have been exterminated 2 years earlier.

[renegade]

Yeah, and here's a link to more of those scragly AR bucks.

News flash* Many, if not all states manage deer with an antlered point system. How else would you be able to tell an antlered from an antlerless?? Some states just have it so low, like Va. where it has to be longer than the deers hair, it's basically an "if it's brown it's down state. That's some fine, well thought out management there!
Ohio and Maine uses them as well. I would have thought you would know that.

[Ghost]

renegade..

How many of those bucks were killed on SGL's? We all know privateland holds nice bucks in PA..: Landowner restricts the amount of hunters on his land..controls whats being killed ..deer live to maturity..deer have nice antlers..Its that simple. Killing nice bucks on privteland is not the issue..The issue is on SGL's. Priavteland mature bucks are the direct result from the landowner..not the PGC and its der management. If you want to find out how the implemented plan is working by the PGC..then you must know whats being removed from the SGL's..thats where you will see if the plan is working or not..the PGC cant take credit from Joe the landowner if Joe the landowner is managing his land differently then the PGC.

There's no difference in growing tomatoes..when ya pick em to early they is immature..

renegade..

Are you gonna make me post pictures of my Ohio publicland bucks again? If you keep it up .. I will I swear to god ill doit..Just try me...please

[Ghost]

Dick..

All ya have to do ..my friend, is look in the PGC PA Big Game records prior 2002...Its all in there.

[Ghost]

Dick...When i listen to you talk about how great things are ..it just completely baffles me..I'm hearing the exact opposite from just about everyone I talk to that hunts PA..Do I beleive you or do I beleive them. Of all my friends in PA..all my relatives..everyone that I know that hunts PA..Only one has taken any bigger bucks now compared to the 1990's. I still have the biggest buck to date from PA of all those same people. 142 inch 8 point from back in 1996..these were the kind of bucks we where chasing. Pope and young bucks were common on SGL's. Krist those same guys are just haveing a tough time even seeing a buck. What the Hell is going on? Are PGC employees trained to continulsy preach that everything is just fine? For example..This evening I had to goto the mall with the wife..while she was doing her thing..I went to REX tv store..Immediately I was approached by the salesmen..He started with his routine..I said..Buddy..Look..Sales have got to be down..How are you able to still survive? You know what he said..he said.."No..No..No..we are doing awsesome..actually Mr. We had our best month in 2 years this month..People are buying and we are doing great". I'm thinking to myself.."Does this guy think i'm a jackass or what?" Some of the worst economic times in 30 years and this Bozo is telling me sales are way up

Dick..The point is..You have to say things are doing fine..Its in your best intrest

Im just hearing the complete opposite from what your hearing..plain and simple

Click on that and explain to me where the Post Antler Restriction bucks are.

http://www.pabucks.com/padeer/typicalgun.html

I guess the next thing your going to say that its old data and hasnt been updated..here we go

[Old Timer]

Ghost wrote:

Dick.. All ya have to do ..my friend, is look in the PGC PA Big Game records prior 2002...Its all in there.

There has been a few added since 2002 but not very many.
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/browse.asp?a=485&bc=0&c=69938

[Younghunter]

Ghost,

That is an old table from this site that has not been updated. Here are the two updated versions from the PGC:

Archery
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=485&q=151994

Rifle
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=485&q=151987

If you look at the Archery, the change is tremendous. You see many bucks in the 2004+ years.

The rifle is less significant, but there has been some from 2004+

However, looking at the rifle list, you really don't see many from the 90's or early 2000's either. Many are VERY old records dating back to the 30s, 40s, 50's, and represent a very different time in deer management. If my memory of history is not mistaken, this would have been a time when the deer population was low in Pennsylvania and the forest were primarily in early successional stages after extensive logging... providing an overabundance of browse.

-Matt

[Younghunter]

I did a quick tally...

From 2004-2007 (4 years) there have been 26 deer added to the top 100 list for Archery.

Then I tallied all the bucks from the 90's (10 years). I got 37.

How do they compare?

Post AR (excluding 2002 and 2003 as transition years)
26 deer / 4 years = 6.5 deer per year on the top 100 list

Pre-AR (1990's)
37 deer / 10 years = 3.7 deer per year on the top 100 list.

Two other points:

The 1990's represented a much larger herd. Post AR/HR represents a smaller herd. This makes the difference even more significant. Even with a smaller herd, PA is seeing a very large increase in the number of large mature bucks being harvested.

-Matt

[renegade]

"How many of those bucks were killed on SGL's?"
I don't know, most hunters are too lazy to report harvests. Besides, it doesn't matter

"We all know privateland holds nice bucks in PA..:"
Well then why do you continually say there aren't any nice bucks in PA? Since about 75% of PA is privateland, it only stands to reason now don't it?

"Landowner restricts the amount of hunters on his land."
Some do, some don't. Some have no idea who's on their land.

".controls whats being killed "
Yea, like that's possible. Besides, they don't own these deer, they aren't wearing nametags and collars, and they aren't on leashes. Do I have to yet again explain "Dispersal" to you?

"..deer live to maturity."
Yes, when they're living on posted no hunting land that's of decent size.

"Are you gonna make me post pictures of my Ohio publicland bucks again?"
No we don't want to see those deer you paid so much money to harvest. Your pictures don't mean squat. Show us a nice buck you've been able to hunt for and kill in PA recently. This is "PA"bucks ya know! You want to impress me? Come hunt my part of the state and shoot a big buck.